Forum Governance Chat - On Break!

Workshop Community
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Notes from today’s session:

Chat
HI… this is the Resonate Forum Governance Cirlce Meet-up for March 6, 2021…
Please say hi and drop any questions or agenda items in the chat.
We have schedule 90 minutes for this session.
I (rich) am happy to lead but would love to have someone volunteer to facilitate next week.
Also, if somebody could volunteer to help make notes in the thread as people speak… that would be great!
We’ll let folks drop in for about 5 minutes.

Suggested Topics:
Capture ideas for forum improvements (WIKI, etc.)
Review the Fixing the Forum Thread.
Set out community design goals.

R: Would be good to collect Forum Gov Circle notes in one accessible place.
Getting information organized in the Forum Community Space.
10:10
Hakanto
[ ] Consolidating Basecamp teams
[ ] Forum Homepage Overhaul
[ ] Founding the Wiki
10:13
[ ] Connecting Devs/Github
10:13
Hakanto


10:14
[ ] Consider public/private spaces
10:15
Hakanto

10:19
CBT = 15 min operations - try to finish draft by Friday
Forum Homepage Overhaul = workplan
CBT - H: thought that there should be about 7 main teams
FHO - Establish process in forum toward drafting a Home Page Design - to review next Saturday.
H: Community Support Category as the place to build.
New Object: new topic.
Link to prior. in footer.
10:40
Hakanto
Category design principles: (1) categories and subcategories are channels that allow forum members to subscribe or unsubscribe (2) categories and subcategories are invitations to the community to start conversations on particular themes
10:40
Sam to get a ‘stem’ draft doc together toward a better set of nested Categories / Sub-Categories and Topics.
Will post in Community Design Category for community comment.
Finalize Next Saturday
H: to share ‘engagement level’ documentation from Ensprial and other Workplace Democracy sources
R: Recruit more members for Forum design.
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@Sam_Martyn’s Forum organization draft proposal. Suggesting a new order of categories and sub-categories.

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Notes from today’s session:

Sam Martyn

The actual post for the forum organization draft proposal: Fixing this Forum (The META-Thread) - #9 by Sam_Martyn

10:04

HI… this is the Resonate Forum Governance Circle Meet-up for March 13, 2021… Please say hi and drop any questions or agenda items in the chat. We have 60 to 90 minutes schedlued for this session. I (rich) am happy to lead but would love to have someone volunteer to facilitate next week. Also, if somebody could volunteer to help make notes in the thread as people speak… that would be great! We’ll let folks drop in for about 5 minutes. Suggested Topics: Capture ideas for forum improvements (WIKI, etc.) Review the Fixing the Forum Thread. Set out community design goals.

First topic: looking at Sam’s draft for categories.

Are there categories to delete and/or merge?

Sam asks about adjusting to get notifications.

10:39

Sam Martyn

Sam debating whether tags can also be an efficient organization tool in addition to categories. Reference Article:It’s Time We Talked About Tags | Blog

Steps for Forum Changes: 1. Finalize Draft Proposal 2. Highlight draft proposal (in forum & Basecamp) and wait a few days for any additional edits, improvements, or objections 3. Implement Final Proposal via Forum Admin 4. Assign a forum moderator or moderators to continually maintain the new forum categories, the forum topics, and the forum design - Sam is willing to do this, but needs admin access to the Forum and any protocols/training for this 5. Begin going through topics in the newly organized forum to merge, archive, or delete topics in any necessary categories 6. Potential to improve presentation and aesthetic design of the forum with images, colors, icons (as topics), etc.

10:58

R: Suggest setting up User Stories for plotting categories.

Description: User Stories | Examples and Template | Atlassian

Look at User Story Template and examples section in the Atlassian.

Attach users stories.

Rich to launch Story doc and circulate to Forum community.

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Hi… this is the Resonate Forum Governance Circle Meet-up for March 20, 2021… Please say hi and drop any questions or agenda items in the chat. We have 60 minutes schedlued for this session.

I (rich) am happy to lead but would love to have someone volunteer to facilitate next week. Also, if somebody could volunteer to help make notes in the thread as people speak… that would be great!

Suggested Topics: 1. Capture ideas for forum improvements (WIKI, etc.) 2. Review the Fixing the Forum Thread. 3. Set out community design goals. 4. Collect User Stories. 5. Set up a method for offering ‘Forum Guidance’ on topics like: Setting up new categories and other areas where there may be choices to make among a range of options.

Reviewing Action Items (and suggesting new ones).

Action: Clean up Governance Thread and Rolling Notes.

Rich: Late with setting up User Story Thread.

Sams offer to help get User stories thread going, questions about when to open categories…

Noting that Hakanto notice some guidance that there should be no more than 5 to 10 categories total…

So how to make these broad enough for sub-categories…

From Hakanto: “Pondering since reading on Pavilion: “Ideally around 5 parent categories and no more than 10. You can go above this in some cases but there must be a very good reason.” No more than 10 parent categories, preferably less is a good design consideration”

https://thepavilion.io/

11:22

Sam Martyn

Comments from Nick Meyne on Sam’s Initial Forum Design Google Doc: “Yes - keep categories tighter… say 5 max (other than the private categories). Example: Music… artists, releases, opinions Co-Op and Co-Operation… us and the way we govern together and reach out in the co-operative world Support (including faq, operations issues) Platform and Projects - where we talk about features and enhancements to the platform and allied projects Basic question: why can’t we open some categories of the forum up for view access to public access, not just members (only members can post, of course, and have access to member-related categories. The support category could be where folks come to find help in faq’s / wikis maintained by members, taking the load off the members@ email channel. (Btw: Where is that link?)”

11:23

Pavilion are a software development co-op that specializes in providing services to Discourse communities.

Sam: Thinking about setting guidance with respect to Public / Private / and other potential access areas, like maybe : Board, Artist areas, various workgroups, etc. .

Talking about validation.

ZKproof

The Great Hack - Netflix

Talking about Data Ethics

Talking about how the web 2.0 fake out is undignified.

Getting beyond the false binary of all or nothing. Bring democratic principles of transparency and agency to these issues and outcomes.

12:09

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Session from March 27 -

Rich / @Hakanto / @Sam_Martyn

Rich LOST THE CHAT! Key notes from memory below…

Session was recorded though and will be posted.

Great introductions and statements of First Principles for the Co-op
Hankanto offered Six Principles of Worker Democratization from the book on the topic by Paul Bernstein more at this link: http://workdemoc.com/

Good discussion about democratization, participatory culture, cultural education, self-reliance and empowerment of the commons.

Updates on Forum Category revisions.

Draft proposal here: Forum Design - Initial Proposal

Hakanto also offered Design Principles for Categories (link coming)

And Sam has hosted a thread for collecting Forum USER STORIES to guide the Forum Categories and structural revisions.

Action (Consensus): To make a proposed revision for the Categories at the April 3 governance session with a poll to gather Forum member sentiment and more suggestions and review leading to a final draft and implementation after the April 10 governance session.

Rich mentioned the value of research to answer questions like: How many members have spent more than 10 minutes in the Forum? How many members are in here in total?

Helpful information to determine whether engagement efforts are effective and how representative polls and other measures of sentiment might be.

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Hi… this is the Resonate Forum Governance Circle Meet-up for April 3, 2021… Please say hi and drop any questions or agenda items in the chat. We have 60 minutes schedlued for this session. I (rich) am happy to lead but would love to have someone volunteer to facilitate next week. Also, if somebody could volunteer to help make notes in the thread as people speak… that would be great! Suggested Topics: 1. Capture ideas for forum improvements (WIKI, etc.) 2. Review the Fixing the Forum Thread. 3. Set out community design goals. 4. Collect User Stories. 5. Set up a method for offering ‘Forum Guidance’ on topics like: Setting up new categories and other areas where there may be choices to make among a range of options. Reviewing Action Items (and suggesting new ones). Action: Clean up Governance Thread and Rolling Notes. Rich: Late with setting up User Story Thread. Sams offer to help get User stories thread going, questions about when to open categories… Noting that Hakanto notice some guidance that there should be no more than 5 to 10 categories total…

H: Starting with review of Spirit Level Session with Tom Gray, Liz Pelly, and Rich representing Resonate Co-operative

LLK: Felt like exactly what Resonate is trying to offer.

11:09

Hakanto

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0gir2y6BnQ&t=11s

11:09

Sam Martyn

11:16

R: Mentions the three areas of concern MUSIC (culture) / TECHNOLOGY (human being centered) / GOVERNANCE (Co-operative & Democratic) and the business propositions (STREAMING SERVICE) to support it.

Sam offers the Category Draft.

LLK: Speaking as a new observer to the forum.

11:21

Hakanto

Rich, take a gander at Proposal B – it in some way mirrors your “three areas”

11:21

LLK: Expecting to see more Economic Information.

LLK: Finds Worker Co-operative more compelling than ‘Stream2Own’. (While acknowledging the requirements of capturing media attention).

LLK: Expressing the concept of ‘undo’.

LLK: Observe the economic models in order to participate and co-manage.

Categories have their own sense of rules. Discussing business is different than sharing music or other things.

Offer guidelines with a basis for change.

LLK: Concept of Value Preservation.

How to capture and protect casual participation that remains significant to the community.

LLK: How to learn and evolve from discussion rather than endlessly cycling.

Sam: What are methods for making that happen?

Is this a role for moderators?

11:35

Hakanto

facilitation

archiving

11:36

Louis-Louise Kay

Yes I was gonna say archivist

11:36

Hakanto

We need to play together to learn how to be more democratic – a concept i’ve seen is that play requires a playground and that without defining that space there is no way to play. Categories on the forum could in a sense be playgrounds that foster their own ways of play and learning

11:41

LLK: Proposes a guideline: In this Forum we try not to forget what we have said and learned.

LLK: Having the power to ‘UNDO’ is a crucial quality of democracy.

LLK: Implementation means ‘People’, people to do things.

11:45

Hakanto

ABSOLUTELY

11:47

Three things that are undemocratic:

  1. Hidden, secret. 2. No explanation. 3. Can’t be undone.

11:48

Hakanto

a wise distrust haha

12:11

Democratic Practice

“Law”

“Rules”

Auditing, Appeals

Sam: Should we have distinctions between conversation and action?

Is there a ‘chartering / authorization’ action?

H: Suggests Loomio. Is there a poll?

Loomio… lazy consensus.

H: Ways to implement? RItual of moving to action areas?

12:20

Hakanto

democratic practice is about: Agency, Decision-making, Policy

12:22

LLK: Democratic Assembly

R: Community Practice?

12:26

Hakanto

atmosphere

12:26

Plaza

LLK: Need to have design that fosters turning discussion into action.

H: Place to watch for results.

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Attending: @richjensen @Hakanto @Sam_Martyn @KallieMarie

Resolutions:

@Hakanto to look at implementing calendar plug-in to help remind people about periodic meetings and/or coordinate tasks & deadlines

Review @Hakanto’s work to up-date Forum Categories proposal to reflect Development plan

@richjensen to Define three different types of discourse with differing degrees of Solidity/Fluidity - retention / discussion.

Notes from chat:

Rich: Move forward with Categories work.

Look at Membership definitions and implementation in scope with Trust grant implementation.

H: Kallie’s thread has brought a great discussion.

R: Where are we with category work?

^Forum design draft - Looking at Option B

K: Is there a job bucket?

R: Maybe Volunteer area be specific for proposing, setting up and joining specific pieces of work.

Task ticket template: Task Ticket Bulletin Board

11:37

Kallie

The app is called Trello

11:39

11:44

Kallie

Is there a bulletin board?

11:46

Sam Martyn

^ Link to potential Calendar plugin for discourse forum^

11:59

thepavilion.io

https://thepavilion.io

11:59

Hakanto

12:02

Kallie

User Experience?

12:07

Hakanto

That would be beyond categories in my view

12:11

Kallie

Artist Page Button?

12:12

Hakanto

12:14

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Just chiming it to say great great great, we should absolutely try to use Discourse Calendar more and make it clearer what the timeslots and topics are so that everyone can come, the more show up at the online meetings, the better !

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Please post your agenda items for the meeting today if you have any. My hope for today is that it will be primarily focused on finalizing a proposal for remodeling our forum categories.

Check out Proposal C for the latest version by @LLK.

Agenda Item: review Proposal C, briefly compare to other proposals, discuss if we’re ready to propose a new model to members in the forum.

I can be there for an hour today.

@richjensen @LLK @Sam_Martyn @tamimulcahy

This is an open meeting – anyone is welcome to drop by.

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@peter has proposed an NFT policy & discussion category. Perhaps, as a kind of test of the proposed schematic, we can consider where it would land. Time allowing today, of course.

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@sarinapl @brndnkng

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Hello All,

My apologies. I was not able to make it today due to a personal matter.

Speak soon!

S

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Sorry if I am putting this in the wrong place…

Just found this interesting doc on the way that the canonical Ubuntu team use Discourse, community wiki-style, to maintain all their product documentation so that it appears nicely on their website.

https://canonical-web-and-design.github.io/practices/project-structure/documentation.html#community-documentation

Our HUGO website works with straightforward markup files and it’s pretty straightforward to cut and paste the Discourse wiki content to the right place in the website and get something reasonably fancy, yet easily maintained. Like our own public faq/wiki and educational content about Resonate, custom artist pages maybe? Maybe we could automate the content push with a script, as the canonical folk have done.

@datafruits @auggod @alexcrane what do you think?

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Notes to April 17 FOG Circle session.

@tamimulcahy @Hakanto @LLK @richjensen attending
Session recorded.

Discussion centered on LLK’s amendments (Proposal C) to Proposal B.

Proposal C confirms all sub-categories per Proposal B.

Reduced the number of categories and adjusted the mandates of two or three.

Except for relatively minor points, there were no objections to the general amendments and Proposal C was accepted as the offer to take to the general community.

Suggestion made and accepted to move the General Category to the first or second position.

Reasoning: This could be the ‘first’ location for users (not yet members) seeking help and FAQs. Support from other Forum members can be shared more efficiently, with greater capacity for community learning and with better security than than by centralizing such support from dedicated volunteers responding to emails or DMs.

@richjensen Made the observation that the MEMBERS category could become the space for autonomous communities to establish their own qualifications (perhaps via Community Credentials) for access to resources they wish to share. Also a natural place for language-based communities to form “outside the dictatorship of English .” - @LLK

Proposed title of the ‘BUSINESS ETHICS’ category led to a discussion that remained unresolved at the end of the hour.

@richjensen Felt that the term ‘Ethics’ narrowed the scope from ‘here is the co-op’s financial information’. @richjensen proposed the Category name ‘Business’ with Ethics and Business Practices as examples of important sub-categories.

@LLK Expressed that the word ‘Business’ has a strong (and often distasteful) American connotation for many people around the world.

Some alternatives were offered:

VALUE
FINANCIALS
ACCOUNTING
BUSINESS PRACTICE
BUSINESS & ETHICS
COMMON WEALTH
EQUITY

Action: @Hakanto Volunteered to present a version of Proposal C to the general Forum with a poll to engage sentiment toward its implementation. The provisional nature of the title for the ‘Business Ethics’ will be expressed to Members with an invitation to express sentiment and provide alternatives.

(Notes based on personal observation. Open to alternative views and correction.)

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Hi @richjensen ,

I would love to “catch up” and read this document in reference (including Proposal C). Where would I be able to find it?

Thank you!

Best,

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@sarinapl you can read all the propositions and how they evolved over time by clicking on the “proposal C” link. Hope we’ve made it readable enough, but you can just skip to B2 and C right away for a simpler look of where we got after quite a few meeting and discussions with @richjensen @Hakanto @Sam_Martyn, @Nick_M and @tamimulcahy

I hope we’ll be able to move forward from there!

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Awesome. I’ve read it over. Speak soon, all!

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Next session 90 minutes 2021-05-08T18:00:00Z → 2021-05-08T19:30:00Z

Location: https://meet.jit.si/ResonateCommunity .

This weekly meeting is open to anyone who wants to join the work of building governance policies and practices for this Forum. The goal is a framework that gives continually improving service for Members and Stake-holders over time.

Meetings will be capped at 90 minutes unless everyone present agrees to extend. Notes will be taken and shared here. Please share comments in this thread (including alternative times for future meeting sessions to better accommodate your timezone).

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Rich is on vacation this weekend, so he won’t be at the forum gov meetup today.

I plan to stop through for about 30mins – if anyone wants to chat, I’ll see you there.

Starts in 20mins!

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Today’s session starting shortly(top of the hour)

Open agenda. One hour.

Location: https://meet.jit.si/ResonateCommunity

Rolling notes: https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/RZ_Forum_Governance_Circle